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C07P10 – Ok, that was bad

C07P10 – Ok, that was bad published on 24 Comments on C07P10 – Ok, that was bad

I updated the Cast Page to include Lu Pai, Dr. Milan, Una, Ravazhi, and Nikel! I also added in links to the first appearance for each, following reader suggestion. 🙂

Well Kali, think of it this way: You and Tama have something in common when it comes to saying things you later regret.

Bluntness is a trait that Kali and I share. Fortunately, Cory says this is something he likes about me. Either he’s very rare, or very kind. Or both. In general, I have not found the world to be a very appreciative place for bluntness, which I find sad. I hate, hate, HATE being lied to. I’d much rather know where I stand on something than have the uneasy “comfort” of a white lie. I tend to be the paranoid sort, so I always assume something is wrong. Especially when people say everything is good. I tend to feel much more comfortable with people when they’ll tell me one thing wrong, even if it’s small, than if they say everything is perfect. Even with friends, I’ll tend to go through bouts of panic until we establish that IF something goes wrong, they WILL tell me about it. I guess I just am uncomfortable with being comfortable!

What do you think about white lies?

24 Comments

Children visit this site. Moderate your language accordingly.

Lying to kids about Santa seems… weird. Maybe it’s because I was the last kid in my family and I asked my mom if Santa was real right before getting on the school buss…

Seems like avoidable pain.

🙂

I’ve long debated what I would do about Santa, Easter Bunny, etc if I was to become a parent. I’ve often heard it defended as “preserving the magic” of childhood… but doesn’t that ultimately teach kids that magic is a lie? Is that why so many adults lose that free, creative spark?

I can’t say much about the Easter Bunny, other than its origins as a festival to honor Ester, a pagan fertility goddess, but with Santa you could always teach them the origins behind it. If believing in Santa took the magick out of life…well, I wouldn’t be pagan. I (quite firmly) believed in Santa until I was 14 years old and my mother had to sit me down and tell me the “truth”. I called her a liar and stormed out. (what can I say, she was VERY convincing and never got caught). But beyond that, he has a history in a great many countries. My grandmother used to tell me of St. Nick in Italy, where they would hang socks outside and some generous old man would come by and out fresh fruit in them. He has stories from the civil war, in this country, and if you truly want to go back, he was Odin. *shrugs* there is a lot of truth behind the /meaning/ of Santa and Yule, if not the materialistic money drain it has become.

I understand…I SO understand. I’m not a fan of lies, be it big scary ones or teeny white ones. More often than not, its the little white ones that cause the most trouble, in my experience. I’d rather have someone tear me down with the truth than lie to me on any level. Unfortunately, most people, even knowing this, would still rather hide behind the “comfort” of the lies. But I think as a society we’ve nurtured that thought process. It’s a common enough joke with the “does this make me look fat” quip, but we’ve essentially ‘taught’ our men to either lie or deal with either rage or tears. Obviously, it doesn’t end there. My general policy on bluntness is, of you don’t want an honest answer, don’t ask me the question. Occasionally, if it is a subject I’m rather sure they really don’t want the answer to, I’ll ask them if they honestly want the answer. What I have found is that, after the initial shock, people either hate you for it or they respect you. And if they hate you for the truth, well, they aren’t the kind of people I want to spend any time around.

(also, thank you for the congratulations!)

I hate being lied to as well, and while I try to be tactful, I very rarely tell an outright lie. I appreciate the same qualities in others; feeling that something is not the way it seems makes my skin crawl.

On the other hand, I have known people who have the same feelings – except they project their emotions onto others. This is a deadly combination. It leads to one person insisting, “I know you’re mad at me – tell me why!” while the other (truthfully) says that there is nothing wrong, until several repetitions have actually made them quite frustrated.

Agh, that’s the most difficult pattern to detect, at least for me! I caught myself doing that last night. Cory was in a really good mood, and I was struggling with a lot of things. I realized that no matter how supportive he was, all I could hear was a judgemental tone. Finally I stopped the conversation and said “I don’t think I can talk about this right now, because I’m pretty sure I want to judge myself poorly and I’m using you to do it. But I don’t want to be mad at you for something you’re not doing. So let’s come back to this later when I’m in a better place. ” I was surprised at myself for being able to do that! Normally I’d assume there was something he wasn’t telling me!

That IS impressive! I’m really bad at that as well, though…I think I’ve gotten better? I don’t do it to ly husband anymore because he does get pissed off, but I used to do it to my friends a lot. I don’t have very many left, having moved across the country like we did, but I haven’t noticed myself doing it recently, xD. Still, its awesome that you were able to recognize that, that’s really hard to.do when you’re in the middle of it!

I tend to be honest about most things, but that could be the scientist in me. It depends on situations and people sometimes though. The problem is, most people that are honest, aren’t tactful. I don’t know if it is that our society just doesn’t teach how to be tactful in telling the truth, or it is just the personality type. It makes people be less inclined to not tell the truth. More of what I have run into is people not telling me things because they didn’t want to offend me, and then I end up finding out due to circumstances. They normally end up blaming me for the reason why they didn’t want to tell me, like I was being too pushy. Why is that? Just doesn’t make sense.

I do think that society as a whole is terrible at teaching effective communication skills. It seems to be worse if you go into a science related field. People act like that automatically makes you bad at interacting with people, so they often remove courses and environments for people to hone those skills! I ran into that a lot in college when studying mechanical engineering. So frustrating! I’d tell people what I was studying, and they’d immediately assume that meant I could not write, read, or speak well!!

I, unfortunately, am a little white liar. It was the only was for me to keep the peace with my family as long as I did. It’s something I’ve been trying to work on since I escaped, but it’s an instinctive reaction by now– someone’s mad/upset, say whatever it takes to make them happy and maybe they won’t be mad at you this time.

I wish I were honest. I’m jealous of all you people that are. Honesty is necessary for good storytelling. But I could never really know the truth of things when I grew up and I guess it’s stuck with me.

I think it’s very brave (AND very honest) to be able to say you rely on white lies. I can very much relate. Growing up, I always valued honesty, but was in an environment where it wasn’t valued. I became a master at the lie-by-omission and/or exaggeration. Technically what I would say would be true, but the way it was presented was to manipulate the person hearing it into believing something false. As I became more independent, I realized that who I wanted to be, and who I was acting as, were conflicting more and more. Ultimately, that’s why I left my family. I felt I couldn’t be safely honest about myself, and I hated moulding myself and censoring myself into something I wasn’t.

I tend to be described as “abrasive” and “harsh”, even though I bake people cookies and have an open-door policy for my friends, simply because I generally develop incisive opinions of things, and feel pretty free to express them. It’s not really a “i like/hate lies” thing, it’s just… how I am. Of course, I also spent a year in Japan, where I learned to soften things a little, so I now have more than one friend! (Yeah, *that* abrasive. As my best friend said about my being “judgmental”: “I never said you were *wrong*!”) And with people who aren’t close friends, I think it’s better to go soft than spell out the truth. In our local Warmachine community it is absolutely not okay to tell someone that they suck at painting minis, no matter how bad they are at it. You’re not even supposed to comment about it when they aren’t even there. So I’ve gotten much better at passably saying “oh, i like the color scheme!” or picking out the one thing they managed to do decently. Unfortunately, this also means I have very little confidence in my own skills because I can’t be sure who’s being sincere! But I didn’t set the rules. If I had, the guy who turned his army into a sad, spray painted Jackson Pollock mess would be handed an intro to model painting book tomorrow and his army tossed into a vat of Simple Green.

In general, it is hard for people (myself included) to deal with judgements. I know I struggle with being externally defined. I feel like only I have the right to judge myself. At the same time, without external information (and judgements) from other people, it’s easy to develop blind-spots about my behaviors. Much like the Warmachine group you describe – without constructive, frank information, some people may not improve their painting skills. On the other, give a judgement that’s too crushing and they may give up forever.

Humans are pretty fragile creatures, when you think about it. Being able to make judgements is an important part of making sound decisions. However, communicating them in a way that is helpful and solves problems is a very challenging task too!

I never understand why people are quite so delicate about things. The argument in the community that’s been patronizingly explained to me is the very “we don’t want them to give up because you were mean” idea and came across as “everyone here is a stereotypical fragile special snowflake of a nerd”. I learned the rule because I started out talking about someone’s model that they were showing off by saying “I think it would have been really cool if you had”. I was even trying to be nice! So yes, constructive criticism is apparently crushing.
>.< The challenge of not crushing people is that much harder when they take everything as meaning far worse than what is said and far too personally. Kind of like your "inner artist" video 😉

I see lies as the life-giving soil surrounding the hard bedrock of truth. Just dig, dig and dig away at that dirty mess until you reach the trusty bedrock. Scrape all the dirt away and blast the rock with water until it’s clean. Who needs life anyway? Meh!

I’m too lazy to lie most of the time, and I certainly don’t see any reason to lie if someone should ask for my opinion. If they don’t like my opinions, they’ll stop asking. Win-win!

But I’m not really opposed to white lies. If people want to misrepresent their own opinions, that’s their problem. I just don’t care enough about what other people think to second guess them if they’re too considerate or self-conscious to be honest. And using white lies to deflect certain questions is just a part of personal privacy, which I believe that we are all entitled to.

True. White lies are very much the mechanism by which we preserve our privacy. In some cases, our personal safety and well-being! I guess, as with all things, it’s a matter of moderation. Knowing when something is important and would cause long-term, harmful impacts. Both for truth and for lies.

I’m usually a pretty honest person. I do white lie on occasion but not very often.
You can also be honest without being blunt or harsh. That’s something that a lot of people should really learn. Tact is our friend. 😀

Okay, but why? Isn’t tact simply a way to sugar coat a harsh truth? I haven’t got a whole lot of tact, and that does not bother me in the slightest. If the truth hurts, perhaps you should change something. If it isn’t painful, what is the need for tact? I’m not saying that we need to be jerks on purpose, but the subject matter of the ‘truth’ is typically what people don’t want to hear.

I think Shayne’s got a fair point. There are ways to deliver a statement honestly, but not hurtfully. Some truths are painful to receive regardless of their context. The main goal is to communicate – but if that’s done in a very emotional, explosive way, then people may react more to being hurt, rather than to someone being honest.

I think “tact” is often confused for another form of lying. I view it more as being targeted, and choosing language that is neutral rather than provocative.

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